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Do they honestly have nothing better to do than bag on the Irish and bag on an 18-year old kid? Honestly? Wow.. I have absolutely not one shred of respect left for them.
Is Kiel ready to start for Irish?
Gunner Kiel, the nation's No. 2 quarterback recruit in 2012, is the future starting quarterback of Notre Dame. But the future doesn't appear to be now.
"Kiel, an early enrollee, comes to South Bend with the biggest recruiting hype of the bunch (competing to start at quarterback), but several QB coaches who worked with the Indiana native last summer came away skeptical about how competitive he is and whether he has the moxie to be an elite QB," Bruce Feldman of CBS Sports reported.
Kiel needs to display the competitive fire during spring practice to start as a true freshman, but it appears that may not be the case.
UPDATE: Notre Dame should enter next year with a new starting quarterback.
Tommy Rees returns, but he disappointed in the starting role last season. Andrew Hendrix has potential. Gunner Kiel is the program's incoming super-recruit. In the end it may be the most unlikely to start for the Fighting Irish in 2012.
"...don't underestimate (Everett) Golson, a 5-11, 185-pounder from South Carolina," Bruce Feldman of CBS Sports wrote. "When we had (Notre Dame head coach Brian) Kelly on our Signing Day Central show a few weeks ago and the Notre Dame coach gushed when I asked him about Golson. You heard a completely different vibe from Kelly just as he started to describe the young QB who had led his high school to state championships in both football and basketball. While Golson does not have prototype size, he has a quick release, a strong arm and wonderful footwork. He also apparently has that presence about him that coaches love."
Golson and the freshman, Kiel, should push to start during spring practice
Gringo Mafia Director of Recruiting Analysis // POTW --> 5-16-11 / 5-30-11 / 3-5-12 / 12-30-12 / 2-24-13 / 9-1-13 / 9-22-13
Well, in their defense, ND hasn't exactly set the world on fire with the QB super recruits they've landed (Scott Grooms, Kent Graham, Ron Powlus, Jimmy Clausen, and Dayne Crist). Don't get me wrong, I want Gunner to break that disappointing cycle, but evidence is not in ND's favor on this one. Conversely, Tony Rice and Kevin McDougal weren't exactly blue chip guys.
I say this not as a troll, but one of the biggest ND homers there are. I'm just a bit tired of setting myself up for disappointment. Gunner has to show the coaches (and fans) he's a competitor.
*apologies for quoting your post, that was unintentional... drives me nuts when people do that.
maybe I'm missing something but didn't Powlus and Clausen have good careers at ND? No neither ended up with multiple Heisman's as everyone wanted to predict but they had very good careers. They both had serious fire and competitiveness. If Kiel mimic'd either of them I wouldn't complain.
Also the comments are from cbs sports not ESPN.
POTW - 1/1/12 - 1/8/12
I am confused...this report was from Feldman, who by the way is an EXCELLENT CFB reporter, who works at CBSnow , not ESPN. I hate ESPN more than most people do, but I am confused as to why you are laying the blame here on ESPN.
3 time POTW;
Ron Powlus did NOT have a good career at ND. Trust me I suffered through all four years of him starting during my time at ND. Constant Disappointment.
Really???? Here's a blip. I would say he had a very good career. No he didn't win the multiple heisman's that they predicted but it was a solid career. I remember watching him play also. It's easy to blame the QB but his numbers were good.
A four-year starter at quarterback for the Irish from 1994-97, Powlus was a two-time captain who set 20 school records at Notre Dame. He started all 44 regular-season games (plus two bowl games) in which he played and completed 558 of 969 passes for 7,602 yards and 52 TDs.
Among records he set included the Irish single-game mark for TD passes in a game with four (three times) and at one point he completed 14 straight passes. He set single-season records in '97 with 182 completions and 298 pass attempts.
If you're measuring their success by the win column (which is always my key indicator of success), then no. Frankly, I could care less about individual QB stats if they don't translate to wins on the field. While Powlus and Clausen had decent careers from a statistical standpoint, to any objective observer, both were overall disappointments following the hype and fanfare surrounding their recruitment.
At the end of the day, I doubt anyone is thinking to themselves "boy, am I hyped about landing Gunner Kiel because he could be the next Ron Powlus." In fact, the only way I can even read that quote is with a sarcastic, pejorative tone to it.
I think you might be confusing the individual's careers with the team's accomplishments during their tenure at QB. I'm not sure how you can hold any QB accountable simply based on W/L's if their defense was a sieve, or there was nothing but pedestrian talent around them. I'm not defending either of Powlus or Clausen, simply questioning the logic you are using to evaluate the position.
Powlus was good QB but LH had more of a running QB system at the time....it just didn't work out..he was loyal to the school and came to ND for the right reasons...
JC was all for himself and his going early was a mistake...Weiss will make me Joe Montana mentality......he again thought more of himself then the team...his record in the pros speaks for itself....he needed the extra year....was not a leader and will be out of pro in two years...if not next year..
I must be missing something on Powlus. As a freshman he went 6-6-1 with a tie to USC. I won't complain about a freshman with that type of record. As a sophmore he went 9-3 with a 2 point loss to NW, blown out by OSU in the Horeshoe and then a 5 point loss in the Orange Bowl to FSU. I would say that is a successful season. As a Junior he went 8-3 with a loss to OSU by 13 and two losses in OT to Air Force and USC. We didn't go to a bowl that year. During his senior year we had just lost Holtz and the Davie era began. I'm not using that as an excuse but we went 7-6 and the switch of Coaches was apparent. I can say that I hope he turns out to be as good as Powlus. He has an expected rough Freshman year. Sophomore year included two loses of less than 7 points. Junior Year we are two OT victories away from 10-1. Senior Year we had a coaching change.
Sounds like those were productive years to me........
MLWTI 12-2, Gringo Mafia VP of Irish Fandom
POTW Feb. 27 - Mar. 5 2012
At a theoretical level, I suppose you are correct, IrishWon. But, at least in the case of Powlus, we have an direct point of comparison.
How much more pedestrian was Ron Powlus's surrounding talent than Kevin McDougal's? By and large, they had the same weapons (Derrick Mayes, Lee Becton, Pete Chryplewicz, Marc Edwards, Ray Zellers). And you can hardly call either of their defenses a sieve. BORGHI hits it on the head, Powlus was a BAD fit for Holtz's system. As a result, we suffered in the win column... largely because of the drop in QB play.
Regarding my logic, can one prove a causative effect between Powlus taking over as starter and the drop in wins? Probably not. There are too many other factors. Can one demonstrate a strong correlation between the two? Sure. The same can be said for the correlation between strong QB play and winning games. While most certainly not the only factor, it's very difficult to dispute strong QB play is a key contributor to winning. Therefore, you cannot evaluate an individual's career success without considering the team's accomplishments during their tenure.
Tommy Rees is 12-4 as a starter. If I understand this thread correctly, that makes him a pretty good quarterback. Better than Powlus and Clausen, at least.
I think comparisons of quarterbacks require a complex analysis. Plenty of variables involved, and they're hard to isolate.
As far as Kiel goes, the fact that other highly ranked QB's didn't live up to expectations has no predictive relevance to him. He gets a clean slate to write his own success or failure, and Clausen, Crist, Powlus, etc., have no bearing on his future.
I may not be pretty, but I'm fast.....
POTW 1/31/11 - 2/6/11
right on the money with that.......
Calgon...Take me away.
Productive? Sure. But within the context of ND football at the time, very mediocre. If we're pumped about a current QB prospect because he has the potential to return us to the years immediately preceding Holtz's resignation, I think we may need to raise our expectations a bit (which is not something I've ever said to an ND fan before).
This post was edited by Big_Skill 2 years ago
I don't believe you're interpreting my point correctly, as the Rees comparison is a bit of a straw man. Nobody has claimed the win/loss record is the ONLY factor in evaluating a QB's success, which your conclusion seems to suggest.
I largely agree with you on Kiel, especially on the clean slate. Again, I've not claimed Powlus' past performance is predictive of Gunner's future performance. I only meant to point out a bothersome pattern: to this point, every single 5* QB at ND (at least, in the past few decades) has disappointed. Yes, I acknowledge those events have been independent of one another. Which is why I said earlier, I hope Gunner breaks the disappointing pattern. That said, I agree with Feldman... Gunner has to show the coaches he's got a competitive fire. If he succeeds in doing so, he'll go a long way towards breaking the pattern.
Of course Rees is a straw man, and so were Trent Dilfer, Mark Rypien, Doug Williams and Jeff Hostetler. As were Jarrett Lee and Jordan Jefferson this year. Teams win all the time without strong quarterback play, and some pretty fair quarterbacks left the pro game without Super Bowl rings. Quarterback is unquestionably the most important position on the field, but how do you weigh it vs. the other twenty-one? Or vs. a head coach? Take a look at Chris Leak's career. Under Ron Zook, he was roughly 15-10 (I say roughly because I don't know that he started every game, but he played in all of them). Under Urban Meyer, he was 22-4. Now, obviously there's a huge difference between Freshmen/Sophomore years, and Junior/Senior years. Yet, you look at his stats over those four years, and they're remarkably comparable. At Notre Dame, Brady Quinn had a very similar experience going from Willingham/Diedrick to Weis, though his stats improved. So, even weighting performance for differential in experience over four years, do you still think those quarterbacks would have achieved the same records had there not been a coaching change? Was Kevin McDougal a better quarterback than Rick Mirer? I'm sorry, but the evidence is all over the map.
Regarding your point on Kiel, I agree. He has much to prove. Those 5-stars get checked at the door.
Kiel and ESPN have some bad history. He was miffed about his experience at the Elite11. Trent Dilfer didn't like him as much as some other guys. Wiltfong was there and said he was a top 5 performer. He didn't make the cut. After that he withdrew from the UA game and played in the AA game. It's safe to say ESPN will be stepping on Gunner every chance they get.
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