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Just curious. We can dispense w/ Brad Stevens. That dude has punched his ticket to any prime job in the US when available, and the destination isn't South Bend.
I would say just about anybody other than Brey at this point. We have to put our money on the "upside", I have seen countless programs built since Brey's arrival and others at least make runs. I was watching Florida GC last night thinking, they literally would beat ND by 30 points with their speed and athleticism. Brey is a nice person, I UNDERSTAND, but the sports world is a road littered with terminated coaches that are "great people."
Look at the seats during home games, with the exception of a few games they are half empty, and those with real people appear apathetic. It was yours truly that asked Wes "why is that, it makes no sense", and after last night it's perfectly clear to me. The average fan/student gets it. We will over-achieve in a regular season, not actually win the conference, but do better, and leave early come March. The Big East is 4-5 in the tournament, that includes a 1 point victory, from the Marquette over juggernaut Davidson. How is it that ND actually over-achieved again? Never-mind...
So, yes I'm there officially, give me Coach Fresh Face, Coach Young Energy, or Coach Just Upside, but please no more of Mr. Nice, after 12 years, I'm full....
No down-vote please - thank you!
No down-vote por favor, gracias !
Gringo Mafia ~
amigo el número cuatro
Mike Krzyzewski or Phil Jackson, of course. < /sarcasm >
I get what you're saying, John, but when Duke hired Mike Krzyzewski he wasn't "Coach K". You're always rolling the dice when you bring in someone new, and more often than not, you crap out. For the first three years, Duke thought they had crapped out with him.
I may not be pretty, but I'm fast.....
POTW 1/31/11 - 2/6/11
Rick Barnes will probably be available soon. He recruits the hell out of athletes, too, like TJ Ford and Kevin Durant and LaMarcus Aldridge ... Oh wait, he struggles to get through the opening weekend come tourney time and never wins his conference tournament, either.
I'm all out of answers for finding the guy willing to "step up" to the 5th or 6th best team in the ACC at a school where basketball will always be second best at best. Seems like Brey generally does well to get to postseason play without the benefit of elite or even very good recruiting classes, which are unlikely to ever become the norm at Notre Dame in the current landscape of (sordid) college hoops recruiting.
Just seems like ND hoops is resigned to waiting for Cinderella given the way things are.
Just seems like the University has resigned men's hoops and their fans.
They can't have it both ways. There will be no support for Brey going forward, period. So don't complain (not you John specifically) when the seats have no fans, and there is no support for the players. And for what it is worth, Brey no longer has the support of his players either, their on court actions spoke volumes.
I like Brey!! Keep him for sure!,!,!,!,!!!!!!
No joke. Keep brey
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really a down-vote? At least say why....
enlighten us, why?
I have to think more on who we could get, i am not sure who we could get to take the job. But Brey needs to figure out the postseason. Im at a loss.
Two time Poster of The Week, 2011 and 2013.
I down-voted you.
Saying that there will be no support for Brey, period? If people stopped supporting him because of the lack of postseason success then he would have lost support years ago.
No support for the players? There was support for them all year and one bad game is not going to change that. Hopefully for Demetrius Jackson (from South Bend) can be the men's team's Skylar Diggins.
I highly doubt that you have any idea if the players support Brey. Basing that opinion off of one game doesn't make any sense. If you know a player or are close to the team and know that for a fact, I'll admit that I'm wrong. I just don't see how you can say that.
The greatest frustration in anything — athletics, career, relationships, etc, — is the knowledge that you have probably reached your plateau and have topped out. Our aspiration is always to strive for more, but now you come to the realization, "is this as good as it gets?"
The next few years could be very difficult for Brey. I saw this happen with Digger his last 5 to 10 years, and I saw it even happen with Lou Holtz. People get tired of the same ol', same ol', especially when progress doesn't seem evident. It's the "ol 9-3 Earle" syndrome Ohio State fans had with Earle Bruce, or the "Joe B. Gone" feeling Kentucky basketball fans had with Joe B. Hall despite the 1978 national title, but several letdowns thereafter.
Brian Kelly is near his peak now, but I can guarantee you that if he keeps going to the BCS four of the next five years but doesn't produce a national title — and heaven forbid he has a recruiting class rank outside the top 10 — people are going to get very tired with 11-2 type records.
I think the ACC is going to be even more challenging, and that might lead to rougher days ahead for Brey. People ask all the time why there isn't more enthusiasm during the regular season. I compare it to a classroom where the professor says, "We will have tests regularly throughout the semester that you will be graded on, but 90 percent of your grade will be the final."
ND is a B or B-plus student during the five-month basketball semester ... but it somehow always gets an F on the final.
You mention Brad Stevens as unattainable. That's probably true, but it's worth a shot. Throw the house at him. Shaka Smart at VCU probably falls under the same category.
Gringo Mafia Director of Recruiting Analysis // POTW --> 5-16-11 / 5-30-11 / 3-5-12 / 12-30-12 / 2-24-13 / 9-1-13 / 9-22-13
Yeah. Here is $3M to save our fledgling program. Please help.
How can you say the last two recruiting classes were not even "very good" with guys like Biedschied, Auguste, Jackson and Beachum? These were all top 100 recruits. Not sure I understand the logic.
Agreed. I'm sick of the lack of talent argument. You know what is most infuriating? The last two tournaments were setup for our success but ND couldn't get out of its own way. Last year as a 7 the 2 seed Duke goes down and we now down to a clearly superior Xavier team loaded with future nba all stars. This year we are in the NIT (really called the NCAA west) but go up against the nasty Iowa State crew who may never lose again. And yes I'm being very sarcastic about the teams we have lost too. Brey needs to learn how to coach in a tournament or get out.
I hear that every year about this time. And it's usually preceded by predictions that "this will finally be the year Brey finally leads ND out of opening weekend" the week prior.
So with that, guess I'll go ahead and mark my calendar to rehash all of this again this time next year. See you all then!
Shaka Smart would be my choice. I like the energy he brings, the tenacity and athleticism of his teams.
Brad Stevens is a great choice but his players are no different talent wise than what ND gets now. He just coaches the hell out of them and they respond and overachieve.
Fair enough! I often would down-vote myself after a post so I'm not offended, just would like to know why, you are the first to respond, so thanks.
I do believe there will be no support for Brey, and by default the players. I've seen it, the apathy in the stands is palpable. There are empty seats all over, and on the occasions they are there by and large it isn't an enthusiastic crowd.
As for the support of Brey from the players, I have no inside information other than what I see. Did that team respond like a team with leadership and direction? Did you see the way Cooley reacted, it was "built up frustration" he said, at whom? Come March Brey simply doesn't deliver, that is not debatable. Every time he goes to the whip, it has 0 impact, this is 13 years of data points, not opinion.
HIs lone saving grace, has been "over-achieving" in the regular season. Given the performance this year of the Big East, the merit of that achievement needs to be taken w/ a grain of salt.
It's tough to understand the logic when you don't even comprehend what I wrote. You highlight a two-year window when I'm clearly pointing to the guy's career at Notre Dame, which spans 13 seasons. Even though you quoted it with your reply, here it is again:
"Seems like Brey generally does well to get to postseason play without the benefit of elite or even very good recruiting classes, which are unlikely to ever become the norm at Notre Dame in the current landscape of (sordid) college hoops recruiting."
I said it seems like Brey GENERALLY gets to the postseason without elite or even very good recruiting classes, and then you drill down to specific recruits.
First of all, Jackson and Beachum aren't even on the roster, yet. So their impact on the program is irrelevant, because it's nonexistent to this point. Maybe the program will turn a corner when you actually get all of those top 100 recruits on the floor together.
More to the point I made, Mike Brey GENERALLY does not sign elite classes. According to one recruiting service, he's had three top 25 classes since 2003 - 2005 (No. 19), 2012 (No. 21) and 2013 (No. 18). Now, what is it about 3 classes in 11 years in the top 25, none in the top 15, that screams elite or even very good to you? I'm not seeing it.
Since the 2003 recruiting class (10 seasons) Mike Brey has led his team to 6 NCAA Tournament appearances (he's been 9 times in 13 seasons). So again, Brey generally gets to the postseason without elite or even very good recruiting classes (twice as many tournament appearances as top 25 recruiting classes).
Hopefully that helps.
The point is top recruits and coaches generally lead to unwanted attention for a program, especially in basketball. Even Krzyzewski hasn't been immune to whispers. Look at how much negative attention the football team has received, and most Irish fans think Brian Kelly walks on water. But you still have kids hitting cops, getting mixed up in allegations of sexual assault, marijuana, drinking, etc. Maybe folks will point to Kyle McAlarney as a victim of circumstances when his marijuana offense landed him a year-long suspension - football players in similar circumstances received next to no punishment (see: Demetrius Jones, Mike Ragone, Cierre Wood).
Again maybe McAlarney was a victim of circumstances with a harsher Res-Life, pre-changes in that department. Or maybe admin wanted to send a message to the "lesser sports" on campus that such activity simply won't be tolerated.
I just don't see Notre Dame wanting to put up with headaches for the sake of success in football AND basketball. It's just not their MO. So the directive to the coaches is clear - bring in quality kids who will qualify, graduate and not think they're above the rules while on campus. Seems to be what Mike Brey gets, and he still goes to the tourney more often than not.
Seems like Notre Dame has basketball right where it wants it.
You could bring Red Auerbach back and until this school changes the type of atheletes they are willing to recruit for b ball we are not winning the NCAA. We would have to recruit the one and done kids like hmmmmm Duke for example. We have to up date the basketball facilities and probably make some adjustments on the academcic standards for the program. They are not doing that nor in my opinion should they.. If they do then you know that ND decided win all all costs for basketball and do you guys really see that happening?
This post was edited by Gulinias 13 months ago
Those first two didn't play like top 100 recruits. Don't know if that freshman forward from iowa state was top 100, but he ate up our senior front line and spit us out.
This post was edited by Scottfan34 13 months ago
I want those expectations, I want the pressure of having to live up to a high standard and have fans and scribes alike picking us for titles every year. Not sure if Brey wants that pressure.
Mike Brey is the right coach for Notre Dame for a plethora of reasons. He's every bit the coach ND wants him to be.
John, that may be a very damning statement.
I don't think there's any question about it. I believe that, as far as the administration is concerned, the majority of objectives for the basketball program are being met, and they're doing it on the cheap. There's little incentive to change.
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