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I think the NCAA should do one of the following.
1. Limit when Coaches can be fired. All firings must occur before NSD.
2. Allow kids opt out clauses in their Letter of Intents. If a kid wanted to play for a specific Coach or in a specific type of offense he should be allowed to write that in as a condition of his commitment.
I just think that there is no way to govern this. It is way too slippery a slope to start going down.
Member of the Gringo Mafia - chief infiltrator of the federales --- If life hands you lemons, throw them at an UofM fan
How about requiring all players be academically competent to complete college courses; moreover said students must attend college classes and pass
They should be going to the school to learn.Not for coaches
You get a plus one from me. ND has a tremendous advantage due to the fact that the Irish take academics seriously along with winning. Even the guys who get to the league, which is a very small number, do not in general stay long. The 40 year decision is ND's biggest advantage over any coach or facility on campus.
“Notre Dame? Relevant? Of course. Call me in 90 years, and I’ll give you the same answer.” Neal Pilson, former president of CBS Sports
In the NFL you don't even get to pick your team, let alone who you want your assistant coach to be. It's a nice spot in life when you get to pick your classmates. Choose wisely.. All assistants aspire to leave for something better. Most Head Coaches as well.
So two days after NSD, an assistant gets arrested on a "Sandusky", he can't be fired?
It's unfortunate when a clown like Kiffin plays personnel games for a recruiting edge, but the recruits need to understand that coaches may not be constants in their collegiate experience. I think the best you can offer would be some kind of transfer possibility without needing to sit out a year because of "changed circumstances," but even that's a gray area criteria which could be abused.
I may not be pretty, but I'm fast.....
POTW 1/31/11 - 2/6/11
I'd like to see a rule stating once you accept a LOI you can't revoke the scholarship except for academic failure or disciplinary issues. No more of this performance based crap. Also make grey shirting against the rules.
5 Time POTW--Gringo Mafia Director of Guerrilla Warfare
You really can't outlaw grey shirting. The student and their family knows about the grey shirt and accepts it, then it is their choice. Its the same idea that a kid was so high on a school he didn't get a scholarship to that he goes there anyway and tries to walk-on. He is successful and earns a scholarship the next year. You can't differentiate between the two so enforcing such a policy is impossible.
You could enforce to an extent. Make a cutoff line to where they have to be enrolled somewhere. JUCO, walk-on or something. The practice of having 20 year old freshmen is ridiculous. Military or religious practices like a mission trip could be exceptions. Make the cutoff of 1 year removed from highschool or something.
My point I think is it's not fair to greyshirt a kid have him enroll when he's 19 then redshirt him. That saves 4 years of eligibility when he's nearing 21. It's ridiculous. That would make him around 23 or 24 when he's a junior. Most juniors are 20. It's a bunch of crap.
This post was edited by 19BlueAndGold85 17 months ago
That's true but I agree with 19B&G85, the scholarship should be a 4 year committment on both sides, not revokable because 2 years later the coach sees a better wideout coming out of high school and the current scholarship player didn't make the 2 deep chart.
Free Agents get to pick.
The thing that's really unfair about this is College Football is really the only way to get to the NFL. I'd love to see the NFL create a minor league, so the kids who dont want an education can go get a paycheck instead of forcing them to waste their time in a classroom. Since there is really no other path to the NFL, I'm mixed on whole class room thing.
I think a better response is rewarding teams who graduate players by giving them more scholarships and taking away scholarships from teams who don't graduate players.
They do have a minor league. It's called the SEC
I think teams should get 100 scholarships which they're allowed to whittle down to 85. If a kid doesn't pan out there is no reason to keep him on the football team. Companies dont keep underperforming employees on the job for 4 years.
Remove them from the team but allow them to stay in school for 4 years with free tuition and give them a job on campus if they need cash.
So do walk ons.. That isn't the point.
Except the NCAA can and does distinguish between a greyshirt and a walk-on. A walk-on participates fully with the team and starts his eligibility clock when he enrolls. A greyshirt delays full-time scholarship enrollment (and thus the eligibility clock) for a year and enrolls part-time on his own dime, but cannot participate fully with the team - not sure of the full restrictions, but they can't practice for sure - for his first year. He has to pay his own way like a walk-on while enrolled part-time, even though he signed a binding Letter of Intent like a scholarship player. Which the school can then disregard the next academic year if they find someone better to usurp his spot. It's crap. Yes, the families know what the situation is, but often they're blinded by love of a school and foolishly buy into a coach's assurances that the kid will get his shot next year, no matter how many kids have been burned before.
The solution to that is simple. If a prospect signs a binding Letter of Intent, he has to enroll full-time in the upcoming academic year on an athletic scholarship that counts against the 85-man limit. Done. If the SEC schools (and others) want to continue the practice of greyshirting, they can do so without having the comfort of locking the kid in for their own sole benefit.
Don't tell the world your problems - 80% don't care and the other 20% are glad you have them.
Yes there should be an NFL minor league, but since there is not one that should not be an excuse to allow athletes to play without any academic standard. I believe the NCAA and college institutions are most at fault for the decay of the student athlete in college football and basketball... Simply rewarding teams who follow the rules still allows the cheating and institutional exploitation to continue. Sorry but these scholarships could be going to kids who want to learn and understand life without/after football. But it is what it is, NCAA has no balls and ESPN is the puppet master so we must endure, cheering for our boys against all odds.
I disagree... most of these kids want to play pro ball. Is it fair to a kid like Mike Floyd & Jimmy Clausen if CW decided to change his game plan and run the option? Is it fair to a kid if a major is dropped or a secondary sport is dropped. If ND dropped Baseball should the Shark have the option to get out of his LOI.
I specifically stated if a kid goes to a school he should get to write in conditions when he signs a LOI. The school doesnt have to accept the conditions.
I just think its shaddy as hell to fire a Coach after NSD.
So basically you want to turn college football in to the NFL. Sounds like a contract not a LOI.
That is probably true. I'm just saying the spirit of grey shirting won't change. The SEC will still oversign by getting people to walk-on. They also likely would not make the team as a walk-on their first year, and thus their eligibility would be the same as grey shirting now. I was not taking into account the binding part, so that part should be done away with, but in all if they are let go after their 1st year, how many kids post-NSD would get an offer they want to take over the grey shirt (which is that binding year)? Wouldn't that offer have already come? They 99% of the time would stick with the grey shirt even if it wasn't binding because of those same often false hopes of getting a scholarship.
I hate to break it to you but a letter of intent is a non binding contract.
All I'm saying is that if a kid feels something is important to them they should be able to write it in the LOI. If a school doesn't agree they don't need to sign off on the provisions added. However if they sign off on the provisions added the kid should be able to transfer out without punishment if the school violates the provisions of the LOI.
I've turned down promotions and jobs because I didn't want to work for a specific boss.
If you're an Olineman and you like school A and School B just the same but you pick school A becuase the Oline Coach is Joe Moore then he gets replaced by John Latina you should have every right to move on.
Other things kids can include in the LOI.
Major they can pursue
class practice confict
My proposed rule change would be that head coaches are held accountable for actions that they performed as a head coach at a previous school.
Basically, if there are known NCAA violations at a previous school under your watch, your current school would be liable for 'second time offender' status if those same violations are committed there.
I wonder if any school would have touched Kiffen if they knew that hiring him meant they were also hiring his recruiting violations from Tennessee.
I agree in part Greyshirts shouldn't be allowed to sign LOI.
Hell anyone who signs a LOI should count against the 85 unless they die or are injured.
However I don't think a kid needs to be enrolled fulltime if thats how they choose to burn their redshirt year.
However there should be some kind of academic progress that the NCAA monitors to make sure kids graduate in 5 years or scholarship redictions for schools who don't graduate players.
Actually their eligibility wouldn't be the same - the eligibility starts on full-time enrollment, and they'd have to enroll full-time to try out as a walk-on. As long as we're keeping up the charade that SEC football is not a minor league, it benefits the school more than the student-athlete to hold off the clock; if the NCAA really wants to protect the kids, they could say any participation in team activities at any level would start the eligibility clock. Sure, the SEC teams would still find ways around it, but I'd rather make it harder for them to do so. I agree with your point on the kids taking the greyshirt as well - many would rather greyshirt at Alabama than take a scholarship at Kentucky. But there should be better protections for them all the same. They're not meat. (I'm not saying that's your opinion, I mean that's how they're currently treated.)
A huge help would be to make all scholarships four years, and to make any binding LOI require that scholarship commitment from the school. Would it result in some kids coasting? Probably. But I'd rather trust the kids than the coaches, quite frankly... A big problem with greyshirting is that most of the schools that do it are not upfront with the kids about it, or at least not consistently. Some of them are told at the last second that they'll have to greyshirt, sometimes even post-NSD. It sucks. Somehow the NCAA needs to address the fact that coaches have absolutely no expectation placed on them from the NCAA of looking out for the interests of the kids.
(edited to clarify a bit)
This post was edited by manor98 17 months ago
His recruiting violations at Tennessee were very minor in nature.
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