Online Now 760

Rockne's Roundtable

The place for Irish fans to engage in hardcore discussion about Notre Dame athletics

Online now 195
Record: 6507 (2/14/2012)

Boards ▾

Rockne's Roundtable

The place for Irish fans to engage in hardcore discussion about Notre Dame athletics

Under the Dome

Talk with Irish fans from around the globe about college football's most storied program

Off Topic

The spot for anything on your mind outside of Notre Dame athletics

Irish Ticket Exchange

The place for Notre Dame fans to trade and exchange tickets

Reply

Raise your hand

  • Ham,

    I agree that the "clear path" works for some and maybe not others. For one of both of our favorites — Kevin McDougal — it definitely worked.

    Rarely have I seen an athlete at Notre Dame as psyched out about an incoming freshman than McDougal was when National Player of the Year Ron Powlus was enrolling. You know how highly I think of Lou, but he was ridiculously smitten with Powlus — and McDougal knew it. I thought Kevin had a really strong spring, and I was so impressed with him each time. But that August, his body language completely changed once Powlus arrived. He wasn't the same, and his performance really suffered. Holtz had privately decided on Powlus — who the week before the opener suffered a broken collarbone.

    When Kevin knew he was now The Man again, it was like 500 pounds off his shoulder. His senior classmates like Aaron Taylor and others loved the guy and internally they were resenting the attention Powlus was getting. (There were already T-shirts being sold that summer at Notre Dame listing the great QBs in Notre Dame history — with an emphasis on Powlus being next in line.)

    This is nothing against Ron, who handled himself with great class during that time and wasn't calling any attention to himself, but that was a prime "waiting to exhale" exhibit with McDougal once he "had to" become the starter. We both know what happened thereafter, but great credit to him for seizing the moment.

    It also helped that he had a great overall team surrounding him.

  • Lou, coaches play favorites, and that can be a real deterrent to the understudies. There are stories about Weis' favorites, which I personally don't know to be true, but if so, there may well have been other cases of stunted growth on the sidelines. This could be true on the ND roster right now. But, it's a purely speculative variable, and not one about which you can project future success, nor game plan around. When it happens, it's strictly serendipitous. For every McDougal, one could name numerous others who were given a shot, and played to expectations. We can just be thankful that McDougal got his.

    signature image

    I may not be pretty, but I'm fast..... POTW 1/31/11 - 2/6/11

  • Great post Lou.

    signature image signature image

    2011 B&G Poster of the Year, 2012 B&G Poster of the Year, 2013 B&G Poster of the Year, 2014 Preseason B&G Poster of the Year

  • Merlin, just for the record, and I think Lou will agree, I've probably had many more differences of opinion with him than I have with you. That 95% stuff you were talking about was just the frivolous stuff you throw out on non-football threads. I may not always be partial to your posting style, but that has nothing to do with your football-related content.

    signature image

    I may not be pretty, but I'm fast..... POTW 1/31/11 - 2/6/11

  • Ham,

    Absolutely. This is not a one-size-fits-all variable. I have immense respect for your typically reasoned and intelligent perspectives and always enjoy reading them.

    I also understood where Merln08 (thanks for the shout out there) was coming from because I had an experience in basketball where the coach's son was ahead of me at "my" position. When the coach stepped down, I suddenly played with a better bounce and got into the lineup. Once Tyler Eifert knew he had to replace an injured Kyle Rudolph, he began to soar, similar to Jeff Samardzija after Rhema McKnight went down early in 2005. Chuck Martin indicated he has seen a different John Goodman this spring too with Michael Floyd no longer around. Time will tell. I've seen too many others not make a dent at all when it was their time to carpe diem.

    If Rees is not going to be in the mix this fall, will that help elevate the other three QBs on the roster from a psychological standpoint? Only time will tell.

  • My God Ham this is a message board. No one cares what BK thinks. This is a place to armchair quarterback, not say "well ask BK and see what he thinks that's what we need to do."

    If Rees gets kicked off it opens up another scholly. Not that big of a deal in the grand scheme of things. And I'm not worrying about holding a scholly for someone on the bench, especially when the two kids behind him have significantly more talent than he does.

    Bottom line is this program is stuck in a rut with him as the QB. To move forward and try to actually go somewhere, we are going to need to play Golson, Hendrix, or Kiel. Anything else is just spinning tires with no progress.

  • This post is for members of BlueandGold only. Join now! 30-Day Free Trial
  • This post is for members of BlueandGold only. Join now! 30-Day Free Trial
    signature image

    I may not be pretty, but I'm fast..... POTW 1/31/11 - 2/6/11

  • Pay, that's an interesting definition of a message board, and one I don't particularly share, but interesting, nonetheless. I find the perspective of someone who has actually done the job and sees players perform on a daily basis to be useful in constructing my own opinions, but I guess I'm just anal retentive about the need for information.

    The issue on this thread, as it evolved, really isn't about Tommy Rees or being "stuck in a rut", though you and most others want it to be. The issue is about "opportunity" and can the departure of a starter, or projected starter, be a good thing in the sense that it creates opportunity for someone to emerge in ways that had not been anticipated (as in Lou's example of Kevin McDougal). As I said, occasionally yes, but I think I'll wait to a more comprehensive study is done to accept the notion that it will always be a good thing.

    I completely agree with you on that "stuck in the rut" part, regarding the quarterback situation. The solution, however, is not to kick Tommy Rees off the team. It's for the quarterbacks behind him to play better. Like I said to Lou, above, it's not like Rees is this large hurdle on the depth chart that the other guys have to jump over. He's like this barely noticeable speed bump. The fact that the others haven't clear it yet is what I find really scary, and that should be the focus of discussion, here, not the presence or absence of Tommy Rees.

    signature image

    I may not be pretty, but I'm fast..... POTW 1/31/11 - 2/6/11

  • From a broader perspective, I have concerns. From a football playing time perspective, I think we have depth as you listed that will help us overcome this. And the QBs knowing they could benefit with realistic playing time could help them over the summer and fall camp. The only other factor here is what other info out there we don't know about exist. Who else was at that party and did they flee before the cops saw them. If that ever surfaces, we could be singing a different tune. I think the facts have to be gathered first and then make sure it is only down to these two.

  • It's never a good idea to oppose Lou on here but I'd debate him all day long with the pig's argument.

  • Giga,

    I have no debate with Ham on the topic. I agree that while there are always great stories about people emerging when the path was cleared (Frank Stams, Kevin McDougal, Reggie Brooks, Jeff Samardzija, etc.), you will find a lot more about people who couldn't seize the opportunity when presented.

    It's comparable to a short QB. There will always be an example of a Doug Flutie, Drew Brees or even Russell Wilson at Wisconsin last year ... but they are the rare exceptions, not the rules. There are far, far more examples of those who never were able to crack the lineup. We hope Everett Golson can be that kind of exception.

    It's like every small, white point guard that comes along in college basketball is dubbed "another Bobby Hurley." It doesn't hurt to dream, but you have to temper it with reality.

  • The only positive that I can see coming from TR not being a part of the Irish football team for the year or partial year, is that it may (hopefully) take the crutch (TR being the mentor )away from the 2 possible starters. They will now have to learn to stand on their own and learn more deeply the playbook without TR helping them out in practice.

    signature image signature image signature image
  • kinda leaning on Merlin's side on this, its nice having an experienced QB, but with Tommy everyone knows how to beat him. stack the box. It sucks for him but you put yourself in that situation you only have yourself to blame. Even in my biggest drunken stoopers in college i knew the only words you say to a cop in a situation like that is No Sir or Yes Sir.

    we all make mistakes, for student athletes they will always be viewed as bigger mistakes b/c of the media n internet now. I think Tommy survives this, maybe 1/2 season suspension. Personally, I didnt think he wouldve been the starter anyway and really didnt want him too, but I wouldnt wish this on any player.

    signature image signature image signature image

    POTW 3-21-11