Rockne's Roundtable

*apologies for quoting your post, that was unintentional... drives me nuts when people do that.

I am confused...this report was from Feldman, who by the way is an EXCELLENT CFB reporter, who works at CBSnow , not ESPN. I hate ESPN more than most people do, but I am confused as to why you are laying the blame here on ESPN.

IrishWon

Really???? Here's a blip. I would say he had a very good career. No he didn't win the multiple heisman's that they predicted but it was a solid career. I remember watching him play also. It's easy to blame the QB but his numbers were good.

A four-year starter at quarterback for the Irish from 1994-97, Powlus was a two-time captain who set 20 school records at Notre Dame. He started all 44 regular-season games (plus two bowl games) in which he played and completed 558 of 969 passes for 7,602 yards and 52 TDs.
Among records he set included the Irish single-game mark for TD passes in a game with four (three times) and at one point he completed 14 straight passes. He set single-season records in '97 with 182 completions and 298 pass attempts.

I think you might be confusing the individual's careers with the team's accomplishments during their tenure at QB. I'm not sure how you can hold any QB accountable simply based on W/L's if their defense was a sieve, or there was nothing but pedestrian talent around them. I'm not defending either of Powlus or Clausen, simply questioning the logic you are using to evaluate the position.

IrishWon

I must be missing something on Powlus. As a freshman he went 6-6-1 with a tie to USC. I won't complain about a freshman with that type of record. As a sophmore he went 9-3 with a 2 point loss to NW, blown out by OSU in the Horeshoe and then a 5 point loss in the Orange Bowl to FSU. I would say that is a successful season. As a Junior he went 8-3 with a loss to OSU by 13 and two losses in OT to Air Force and USC. We didn't go to a bowl that year. During his senior year we had just lost Holtz and the Davie era began. I'm not using that as an excuse but we went 7-6 and the switch of Coaches was apparent. I can say that I hope he turns out to be as good as Powlus. He has an expected rough Freshman year. Sophomore year included two loses of less than 7 points. Junior Year we are two OT victories away from 10-1. Senior Year we had a coaching change.

At a theoretical level, I suppose you are correct, IrishWon. But, at least in the case of Powlus, we have an direct point of comparison.

How much more pedestrian was Ron Powlus's surrounding talent than Kevin McDougal's? By and large, they had the same weapons (Derrick Mayes, Lee Becton, Pete Chryplewicz, Marc Edwards, Ray Zellers). And you can hardly call either of their defenses a sieve. BORGHI hits it on the head, Powlus was a BAD fit for Holtz's system. As a result, we suffered in the win column... largely because of the drop in QB play.

Regarding my logic, can one prove a causative effect between Powlus taking over as starter and the drop in wins? Probably not. There are too many other factors. Can one demonstrate a strong correlation between the two? Sure. The same can be said for the correlation between strong QB play and winning games. While most certainly not the only factor, it's very difficult to dispute strong QB play is a key contributor to winning. Therefore, you cannot evaluate an individual's career success without considering the team's accomplishments during their tenure.

right on the money with that.......

Productive? Sure. But within the context of ND football at the time, very mediocre. If we're pumped about a current QB prospect because he has the potential to return us to the years immediately preceding Holtz's resignation, I think we may need to raise our expectations a bit (which is not something I've ever said to an ND fan before).

Of course Rees is a straw man, and so were Trent Dilfer, Mark Rypien, Doug Williams and Jeff Hostetler. As were Jarrett Lee and Jordan Jefferson this year. Teams win all the time without strong quarterback play, and some pretty fair quarterbacks left the pro game without Super Bowl rings. Quarterback is unquestionably the most important position on the field, but how do you weigh it vs. the other twenty-one? Or vs. a head coach? Take a look at Chris Leak's career. Under Ron Zook, he was roughly 15-10 (I say roughly because I don't know that he started every game, but he played in all of them). Under Urban Meyer, he was 22-4. Now, obviously there's a huge difference between Freshmen/Sophomore years, and Junior/Senior years. Yet, you look at his stats over those four years, and they're remarkably comparable. At Notre Dame, Brady Quinn had a very similar experience going from Willingham/Diedrick to Weis, though his stats improved. So, even weighting performance for differential in experience over four years, do you still think those quarterbacks would have achieved the same records had there not been a coaching change? Was Kevin McDougal a better quarterback than Rick Mirer? I'm sorry, but the evidence is all over the map.

Regarding your point on Kiel, I agree. He has much to prove. Those 5-stars get checked at the door.