Rockne's Roundtable

+1, great post. We need to start winning those type games again. I'm not sure if its luck, etc., or whatever. But we need to find the "it" again. I think the whole mentality of the program and fanbase now is "how are we gonna lose this one" because we haven't been able to win one of those games. I think once we get over the hump, i thought we would have by now, we will start to get that positive vibe and start winning consistently again. At least i hope so,lol.

That's why they call football "a game of inches." The great ones seem to get it done time and again. The mediocre to good ones don't.

I agree with what ^^^^^^^^^^ he says.

FC

I think this idea is quite interesting and presents some good points and food for thought. But I'm going to try to balance it with a little parity:

1993 Lou Holtz's ND was cruising toward another national championship only to lose inexplicably in the last seconds to BC (after having to come back from several scores down) on a FG by a kicker who had only played football for two years,

2010 Brian Kelly's team beats USC despite a plethora of turnovers and a backup true freshman QB, aided by an inexplicable dropped pass by Ronald Johnson on the final drive and then an interception to seal it.

I myself don't have much of a point except that looking at the past to draw conclusions necessitates a wide perspective.

So, personally I'm going to try to hold off for a year or two before going down that road.

I do think that like others have been saying, there has been somewhat of a losing culture in ND football that is hard to overcome after all these years, exemplified to me when Brian Smith tried to tell Louis Nix over Twitter that it doesn't matter that you have heart and the will to win, having SEC-type athletes is what's important. So Kelly has a lot on his plate, and whether or not his will is enough to do the job is yet to be determined for me.

I think there was also a Miami fumble in their 31-30 loss to ND in 88 that was questionable. It was on the goal line in either the 3rd or 4th quarter, and Johnson really freaked out at the call.

I'm not sure it would have been called a fumble today. I think it was on a pass to that big back who used to circle out of the backfield. Can't recall his name. I always thought there was a good chance he had possession. The thing is, it could have been a TD.

I also believe that Peete got an incredibly bad spot in the 86 USC game. Couldn't believe the Pac 10 officials saw it the way they did.

ND has been paying for that Holtz good luck in 80's since.

1) Gordon's kick, a wobbly smelly turd (kind of like BC in general) that somehow made it through.

2) Leinart, down, not out of bounds - clock runs out and ND is probably in the national championship conversation that year.

3) Gray's fumble. It changed the dynamic of the season

hemy,

Thanks for continuing to provide so much to this board to stimulate conversations.

If I remember correctly, it was actually 37-27 at the time in the 1986 USC game. Wally Kleine made a huge surge to push back Peete, but it appeared he had made the first down. Still, ND had to drive 85-90 some yards, and get the two-point conversion too. It's not about just getting the break — but also capitalizing on it.

Looking back, so many say the season changed on Jonas Gray's fumble versus USF. My response is "There are 56 minutes left!" You're down 7-0 ... okay, that happens. There are 56 minutes left. It seemed Notre Dame flinched.

There is seldom ever a season at Notre Dame, or many other places, where you can't say three or four plays might have made a difference. But that's missing the point. There is a special prayer Lou Holtz had the team say that ends with "the future is a whole string of nows."

It's the same with a football game. People point to a play or two and say that was the difference ... but what about the string of other plays that led to that one at the end?

The Gerry Faust era drove me crazy because all we would ever hear at the end of each year was "three plays away from 9-2 or four plays from 10-1?" Yada, yada, yada.

Take the 1983 season (please!) In the finale, ND lost 23-22 at home to Air Force when Mike Johnston's 31-yard-field goal was blocked on the final play. That one play is pointed to as the culprit. What about blowing a 22-10 lead late in the game while making one mistake after another? What about getting another field goal blocked earlier in the game — by the same player, no less. The point is, it never should have come down to one kick. Yet, Faust apologists always made it sound like the team was "snakebit" or "being tested to separate the what from the chaff among the fans."

A week earlier, ND needed to convert a third-and-inches with a minute left at Penn State to seal the game. Instead, it lost three yards, punted, and Penn State scored the winning TD in the closing seconds to win 34-30. What is forgotten is right before halftime, ND had the ball near the PSU one and had a couple of plays to run — but no time outs. A sneak is called, fails ... and time runs out before another play can be called. Those things get overshadowed because it sounds better to say "one play away."

It's not an accident that Faust's (God bless him) lost these type of games.

ND had Michigan down 24-7 last year but couldn't close. It wasn't because of one play. It was a whole string of nows earlier that led to the bad ending. It just becomes easy to scapegoat one play.

One of the foremost attitudes that has to be eradicated is the belief that you are better than your record but just get "bad breaks." Once you can step out of that culture, that's a positive move in a different kind of 12-step program in athletic competition.

"Those that complain about the way the ball bounces are usually the ones that dropped it."
— Lou Holtz

Well said Lou. I was a senior in high school and was at that Penn State game in 1983, i was beside myself with the sequence at the end of the first half and being stopped on third and short that would have iced it. I believe Pinkett had over 200 yards rushing that day and we couldn't get the half inch on 3rd down.

The 8-5 season last year was not the product of Gray's fumble. Gray's fumble was the product of a team that couldn't protect the football. Its as simple as that.

The difference may be that the players Holtz inherited were more talented than the ones Kelly inherited from Weis, sure Weis had a #2 ranked class but really looking back where would that class rank right now? I’m guessing not in the top 10.

Difference to me is Holtz was able to get the players to buy in and coached them up, Kelly is on the right track but I think there was something deeper in the ND program that was harder for most fans to see and for Kelly to get rid of: Entitlement.

I think those days are gone, hopefully the Rees decision will back that up.

Every year we as fans find those 2-3 plays that we think could have changed the season, but quickly forget the plays that went our way that saved the season. I think it balances out in the long run, I think right now we are coming to the end of bad streak of plays. Won’t really know until November 25th 2012 though.

Therein lies the point I made at the top of this thread. "The great ones seem to get it done time and again. The mediocre to good ones don't." The great coaches prepare their clubs for any scenario, mentally and physically, and they don't flinch in the face of a little adversity. Last summer, BK said the 2011 team was "the most focused group he has ever coached." It was obvious in the first quarter of the first game of the season they might have been focused, but they were not prepared for some game day adversity.