Online Now 460

Rockne's Roundtable

The place for Irish fans to engage in hardcore discussion about Notre Dame athletics

On this Board 255
Record: 7576 (1/16/2013)

Online now 483
Record: 6507 (2/14/2012)

Boards ▾

Rockne's Roundtable

The place for Irish fans to engage in hardcore discussion about Notre Dame athletics

Under the Dome

Talk with Irish fans from around the globe about college football's most storied program

Off Topic

The spot for anything on your mind outside of Notre Dame athletics

Irish Ticket Exchange

The place for Notre Dame fans to trade and exchange tickets

Reply

Kelly putting Hendrix in at our 30 in the 4th quarter

  • This has just been eating away at me because I don't think, unless I have missed it, that it has gotten enough attention on this board. When Kelly put Hendrixs in at our 30 yard line early in the 4th quarter, I said " you can't be serious". It is against traditional football strategy to put an inexperienced, second string qb into a game, at a key time, deep in your own territory. The reason: the possibility of a player with only a little experience making a turn over. What happened ? Hendrixs throws the ball right to a FSU guy and a few plays later, FSU, on a short field, scores.

    This reminds me of the inexplicable substitution of Crist near the end zone against Usc. Again, a move that is against traditional football strategy. The reason not to change the QB's :The possibility of a fumble. What did we get ? A fumble that may have cost us the game. It certainly took us out of the game.

    It also reminds me of The Tulsa game last year when, against traditional football strategy, instead of going for a FG, we try for a TD pass and get it intercepted.

    There is a pattern here: Kelly's calls are good for a couple of losses a year. Why ? He has disdain for tradional football strategy which is usually based upon percentages and the experienced knowledge of coaches.

    Tell me, if we had not gone against traditional football strategy and put in Hendrxks on our 30 yd. line, isn't it probable that we win the game the other night ? I think so ! I realize that our pass defense was becoming poor and our rush was not effective ( we need to ask Diaco why he didn't continue blitzing), but I think that there is an excellent possibility that we would have won the game,

    I hate to lose games that we should have won and I know that the rest of you do also !

    This post was edited by irishm on 12/31/2011 at 5:22 PM

    irishm

  • This post is for members of BlueandGold or All Access VIP members only. Start Free Trial

    NDFan76

  • That was one of several BK mistakes. I wish we could just blame the players, but the bigger problem lies with BK. I have no answer to this. A new coach is not the answer.

    zephler

  • Sorry but it's probably time we learn how to spell the poor kids name: Hendrix.

    bettis2308

  • irishm said...

    This has just been eating away at me because I don't think, unless I have missed it, that it has gotten enough attention on this board. When Kelly put Hendricks in at our 30 yard line early in the 4th quarter, I said " you can't be serious". It is against traditional football strategy to put an inexperienced, second string qb into a game, at a key time, deep in your own territory. The reason: the possibility of a player with only a little experience making a turn over. What happened ? Hendricks throws the ball right to a FSU guy and a few plays later, FSU, on a short field, scores.

    This reminds me of the inexplicable substitution of Crist near the end zone against Usc. Again, a move that is against traditional football strategy. The reason not to change the QB's :The possibility of a fumble. What did we get ? A fumble that may have cost us the game. It certainly took us out of the game.

    It also reminds me of The Tulsa game last year when, against traditional football strategy, instead of going for a FG, we try for a TD pass and get it intercepted.

    There is a pattern here: Kelly's calls are good for a couple of losses a year. Why ? He has disdain for tradional football strategy which is usually based upon percentages and the experienced knowledge of coaches.

    Tell me, if we had not gone against traditional football strategy and put in Hendricks on our 30 yd. line, isn't it probable that we win the game the other night ? I think so ! I realize that our pass defense was becoming poor and our rush was not effective ( we need to ask Diaco why he didn't continue blitzing), but I think that there is an excellent possibility that we would have won the game,

    I hate to lose games that we should have won and I know that the rest of you do also !

    I'm sorry. But I wholeheartedly disagree with your assessment. BK is damned if you do damned if you don't at that point. 95% of the fan base was calling for Hendrix throughout the entire game. In fact, the first problem Andrew probably had was the tremendous weight hanging from his balls. (thats the 95% of the Irish fan base who thought he was the golden child since the 2nd half of the Stanford game.). I knew better. And fortunately, It only took the inevitable immediate mistake for him to have 85% of that 95% fall off the wagon and claim he's not the best option afterall. Everyone now feels it Golson and, they can't for the life of them, figure out why he wasn't playing this year.
    Point is.. If you were put in the same situation you probably would have put Andrew in the ball game as well. Regardless of what you say now. Hindsight is 20-20. If Andrew comes in..leads a TD drive then him and Bk are gods once again and everyone goes on thinking Andrew is the answer even though there is a decent chance he never actually will be that answer.

    signature image signature image signature image

    Attended: Michigan @ ND 2010 Southern Cal @ ND 2011 Stanford @ ND 2012 BCS National Title Game vs. Alabama - Jan 7th 2013

    brenner_f

  • I liked the call. I wish Hendrix would have played much more.

    signature image
    signature image
    signature image

    ppdnd8

  • I believe that when Hendrix threw the pick there was no pressure on him. He threw it RIGHT TO THE FSU PLAYER. Hit him between the numbers. My thinking, right or wrong, is maybe he didn't want Rees getting sacked for a long loss and have to punt from deep in their own territory. Who knows. It's easy for us to sit here and complain about coaching.

    gdomer2710

  • brenner_f said...

    I'm sorry. But I wholeheartedly disagree with your assessment. BK is damned if you do damned if you don't at that point. 95% of the fan base was calling for Hendrix throughout the entire game. In fact, the first problem Andrew probably had was the tremendous weight hanging from his balls. (thats the 95% of the Irish fan base who thought he was the golden child since the 2nd half of the Stanford game.). I knew better. And fortunately, It only took the inevitable immediate mistake for him to have 85% of that 95% fall off the wagon and claim he's not the best option afterall. Everyone now feels it Golson and, they can't for the life of them, figure out why he wasn't playing this year.
    Point is.. If you were put in the same situation you probably would have put Andrew in the ball game as well. Regardless of what you say now. Hindsight is 20-20. If Andrew comes in..leads a TD drive then him and Bk are gods once again and everyone goes on thinking Andrew is the answer even though there is a decent chance he never actually will be that answer.

    Nice response brenner.....Coach said that the entire playbook was open to Hendy, he recieved a ton of snaps going into this game, had a decent amount of game experience, it was time to find what you have if your Kelly.

    Andrew had Eifert open but he chose to go to Toma and didn't see the LB .... He learned a painful lesson and will be better in the future.

    signature image

    CITY OF CHAMPYINZ!!!!!!

    DuquesneDuke

  • All I can say is that for certain situations, there are certain strategies that coaches feel is the correct thing to do. You will not find many coaches, hs or college, who would agree with your perspectives. ( this is basic football 101 when it comes to football strategy although it is a fact that is not provable on the internet at this exact moment) By the way, I say "many" in order to cover that small percentage of coaches 1 ) who will use the element of surprise by going against basic beliefs, or 2) are just stupid.

    Coaches do not change QB's deep in their own territory, nor on the goal line. It is true that there a few coaches who have brought in another QB near the goal line. Holtz did it, Oklahoma has done it this year, but that was a year long thing. It was part of their offense. Hendrix was not part of the offense all year. I can guaranty you that almost all of the coaches in America, in hs and above, would not have put in Hendrix so deep in our own territory. Again, these things are basic football and to dispute that makes you look foolish. ( Sorry, no disrepct intended, but I can't think of another way to say it. It is like you are saying, if you drop something, it will not fall because of gravity) You are just fighting the facts.

    Yes, Tommy could have thrown an interception, but what he might have done is not the question. Although if you want to play the" if game", he might have thrown a completion to Eifert or someone else instead of Hendrix throwing an interception. Keeping Tommy in at that time was still the right thing to do ?

    As far as some of you not having a problem with Kelly ignoring basic football strategy by putting in Hendrix, all I can say is " what happened" ? Sometime, you can go against the basics and succeed, but the law of averages are still with the house. This is why most coaches follow basic football tenants most of the time.. Percentage wise, it is the best thing to do.
    And, if Kelly had stuck with the basic principles, we would not have fumbled in our own territory and FSU would not have scored when it did,

    I also changed his spelling for those who wish to make a big deal about such a small thing.

    This post was edited by irishm on 12/31/2011 at 5:33 PM

    irishm

  • This post is for members of BlueandGold or All Access VIP members only. Start Free Trial

    garyfh

  • This post is for members of BlueandGold or All Access VIP members only. Start Free Trial

    irishED

  • brenner_f said...

    95% of the fan base was calling for Hendrix throughout the entire game. In fact, the first problem Andrew probably had was the tremendous weight hanging from his balls. (thats the 95% of the Irish fan base who thought he was the golden child since the 2nd half of the Stanford game.)

    Brenner, I was among the 5% who had reservations, and without knowing Kelly's rationale for the move, I had to cringe when he made the move because I think Hendrix struggles reading coverage in throws to the middle of the field. But, Rees had been ineffectual for much of the game, so it was a damned if you do, damned if you don't, scenario. I'm also on the Golson bandwagon, but I've been there since August, though for 2012, not this season, and I share your concerns about him having to carry the expectations of a fan base desperate for an answer that may still be two years away.

    signature image

    I may not be pretty, but I'm fast..... POTW 1/31/11 - 2/6/11

    HamOnWry22

  • I agree that inserting Hendrix in that situation was, at the very least, debatable.

    But many would argue that starting Tommy Rees in the game, in the first place, was equally debatable, and maybe more so in 20-20 hindsight.

    But the real dilemma was in having to run a two-QB offense at all. Because it was less about getting two guys with different capabilities adequate playing time, and more about not knowing if either could get the job done on his own.

    Which is also to say that, while it was debatable if Rees should start, it was also debatable as to whether or not Hendrix should start. As it turned out, neither distinguished himself.

    I, for one, mistakenly treated Hendrix's Stanford performance as a "body of work," rather than what it was, a relief appearance. There was no guarantee that, against FSU, we would see Stanford 2.0 from Hendrix, and, I would suspect, Kelly was not betting the ranch on it either. Hoping for it, maybe, but that's it.

    As others have indicated, it was really a no-win situation as to which of the two to insert at which point, and it definitely undermined ND's offensive flow.

    So, bottom line, should Kelly have gone with Rees at the ND 30 at that point of the game, i.e. stayed with the percentages? To me, yes.

    But had Hendrix thrown a TD or run it in from the read option, we would all be hailing Kelly as a genius today -- as we sucked down our Bloody (or for me, Virgin) Mary's today.

    I'm glad it's Kelly's job, not mine.

    Risksorter

  • This post is for members of BlueandGold or All Access VIP members only. Start Free Trial

    sportsfansb

  • Rees probably would have thrown the interception as well except he would have waited until ND was in the red zone.

    signature image

    pvasti

  • This post is for members of BlueandGold or All Access VIP members only. Start Free Trial

    Irish legend CMC Quote Master and Director of Football Related Discussions 5 Time POTW & 2 Time WPOTW Winner Joined 09/17/05

    Hodges