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Rees still sees himself as starter

  • Gee..I was criticized for a TR remark a few days ago..it seems kind of mild after reading the latest...

    BORGHI

  • kmurr in WA said...

    Why isn't some of the anger towars Tommy on this board not directed more towards Andrew or Everett for not picking up better those aspects of being a QB that Tommy has? It's not Tommy's fault that they haven't taken the job from him by now. They both have more physical talent obviously than does Tommy. Why not more frustration towards them for not advancing more in the other areas of the game?

    I know, I can already hear that they haven't been given the same chance. But that is according to BK because they haven't up until now grasped the things necessary to run the offense against other teams' defenses. I say other teams because things like audibling into right calls is more important against a defense in which you are not as familiar as your own in a scrimmage. I also hope that one of the other two emerges as the starter, but I am simply asking why the guy who is getting more out of his natural abilities is receiving all of the criticism while the two who aren't are seemingly getting a pass.

    ^^^^^^this.

    POTW 8.8.11-8.15.11/ Co-Founder Gringo Mafia

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    IrishWon

  • kmurr in WA said...

    Why isn't some of the anger towars Tommy on this board not directed more towards Andrew or Everett for not picking up better those aspects of being a QB that Tommy has? It's not Tommy's fault that they haven't taken the job from him by now. They both have more physical talent obviously than does Tommy. Why not more frustration towards them for not advancing more in the other areas of the game?

    I know, I can already hear that they haven't been given the same chance. But that is according to BK because they haven't up until now grasped the things necessary to run the offense against other teams' defenses. I say other teams because things like audibling into right calls is more important against a defense in which you are not as familiar as your own in a scrimmage. I also hope that one of the other two emerges as the starter, but I am simply asking why the guy who is getting more out of his natural abilities is receiving all of the criticism while the two who aren't are seemingly getting a pass.

    Because none of us have played QB at this level of competition and/or because most of us don't really understand what it takes to play QB at this level of competition...

    Toro

  • Like was mentioned in an earlier post, in a different way, the reason TR is ahead of EG and AH is because he has played. How can anyone expect EG & AH to learn the signals when they are standing behind the guy giving them on the sideline? They both need snaps, which gives them experiencen. TR has taken 70%+ of the snaps in practice and 95%+ in games, of course he is the most comfortable in the "special teams" of QB play, he is the only getting the chance. I would rather see EG or AH run the wrong play 20% of the time than TR running the right one 100 of the time

    cdtemp ●

  • HamOnWry22 said...

    Assumedly, that's why Rees played over Crist, last year, but as that first word suggests, it's merely an assumption. It becomes frustrating when there appears to be such a gap between Rees' skills in these areas and his competitors, last year and this year. Granted, not all will perform at the same level, but why only one out of four (the other three being Crist, Hendrix and Golson -- Kiel obviously gets a pass right now) at a level acceptable to the staff? Rees has slightly more time in the program than Hendrix or Golson, but the latter two have now been around at least as long as he was when he was playing as a Freshman. This one is a head scratcher for me.

    Ham:

    I agree that Hendrix and Golson still not being able to run the offense in what appears to be basic improvisational ways remains a mystery. And Hendrix is a pre-med student and Golson, a musician. Maybe one only has intelligence and the other, good left brain/right brain coordination. Whatever, in each case, the lack is, it was obvious.

    From my own college football experience, the only time I ever saw this kind of failing was when a guy's head was not in the game. I hope that's not the issue.

    But, here's the rub. If this is not corrected before Dublin, Rees could be the starter. If Kelly has a guy who can do 85% of it well, he's unlikely, in my view, to go with a guy who can do about half of it spectacularly, but who is a total liability with the other 50%.

    I'm not making a prediction because there's no way I could justify one, but I'm beginning to sense a potential scenario where Kelly goes with Rees until he can't. In other words, why jeopardize the Navy and Purdue games, both of which, with Rees under center, are eminently winnable, but which, with either Golson or Hendrix at the helm, could become a lot more competitive.

    And if ND is able to cruise, Kelly can then bring in Golson and/or Hendrix for game experience and/or mop up. After that, it's one game at a time. Rees played well against UM and MSU last year, so, assuming he were to play well in the two opening games, on what basis would Kelly then replace him? Only if he blew up in either of those games or in any of the next ones.

    In other words, I can see what Rees was saying in the interview. Since there's been no sea-change in the play of the other two, he sees it as still his position to lose. It's a valid argument.

    Frankly, I was disappointed in Hendrix's play on Saturday. It didn't look like he'd made any kind of a quantum leap. And, while Golson looked better and more adept, this business of not knowing the play was, to me, pretty astonishing. Guys who don't know the play or who can't line up the team don't belong on the field.

    Again, I'm not saying categorically that it will happen, but I can conceive pretty clearly under what cirucumstances how and why Kelly might go with Rees. It's not, as we all know, that Rees is so good, but that the other two still haven't put it together. And if not by now, then when?

    Risksorter

  • TX Irish said...

    Do you really think TR took the starting job from Dayne C., if so why hasn't Andrew taken the starting job from TR. TR as I have said before is a great young man represents ND well and is very cool under fire. However TR is not accurate in his throws plain and simple. All you have to do to prove it is watch film on him and unless he has great receivers the ball will be caught by the other team or missed. Golson seems to have a more accurate arm and a lot better running skills.The fumbled snaps are not a real concern at this time, that will come with reps and time spent with a really great center( Cave). 16 games is a lot of experience but TR is really not getting better.

    A couple of those fumbled snaps came as a result of the timing of the snap count being off. It's the QBs job to (1) recognize and decipher the play being signaled in; (2) call the play with the correct formation and snap count that takes into consideration any motion required; (3) read the defense, assess the situation (down-distance and formation) and audible to a new play if need be. Golson needs to demonstrate he can do all of these better, but most importantly he needs to master 1 and 2 before 3 becomes important, or even necessary. Without mastering 1 and 2, Kelly is never going to give him the keys to the car...and Golson knows it.

    This post was edited by Toro on 4/24/2012 at 6:16 PM

    Toro

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    POTW 2/7-13/2011

    kmurr in WA

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    POTW 2/7-13/2011

    kmurr in WA

  • HamOnWry22 said...

    I have a scratching post.

    Sorry Ham, just busting you chops. Oops sorry again.

    texasdomer1

  • I don't get how he can change a play by what he sees at the line, but then throw into triple coverage when the d drops 8. There were 5 guys around goodman when that pass was intercepted. Rees is at his best when he gets the ball out quick to the playmakers. That's why he does well in that 2 minute offense. He takes what the defense gives him. He gets in trouble when he tries to do too much. Unfortunately that is called the ceiling and it has been reached. Bill Parcell said it best..."you are what you are."

    Pharmerdan

  • HamOnWry22 said...

    I have a scratching post.

    This post was edited by texasdomer1 on 4/24/2012 at 8:11 PM

    texasdomer1

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    POTW 2/7-13/2011

    kmurr in WA

  • kmurr in WA said...

    Why isn't some of the anger towars Tommy on this board not directed more towards Andrew or Everett for not picking up better those aspects of being a QB that Tommy has? It's not Tommy's fault that they haven't taken the job from him by now. They both have more physical talent obviously than does Tommy. Why not more frustration towards them for not advancing more in the other areas of the game?

    I know, I can already hear that they haven't been given the same chance. But that is according to BK because they haven't up until now grasped the things necessary to run the offense against other teams' defenses. I say other teams because things like audibling into right calls is more important against a defense in which you are not as familiar as your own in a scrimmage. I also hope that one of the other two emerges as the starter, but I am simply asking why the guy who is getting more out of his natural abilities is receiving all of the criticism while the two who aren't are seemingly getting a pass.

    The entire post is spot on, but the last sentence (question), in particular, is very insightful. As Toro suggested in his response to this post, many are not familiar with all this is required of the position. Thus it becomes easiest to critique the obvious, and TR's shortcomings are much more obvious to observers than his strengths. The vast majority of us are not going to know if the team has been put into the right formation or not, and whether a two-yard gain could have been a ten-yard gain if the right call had been made. It was always my guess that this was at least partly the reason why Brian Kelly was turning purple on the sidelines in that first game. Those are missed opportunities, but they don't show up in the stat sheet like interceptions.

    signature image

    I may not be pretty, but I'm fast..... POTW 1/31/11 - 2/6/11

    HamOnWry22

  • Toro said...

    A couple of those fumbled snaps came as a result of the timing of the snap count being off. It's the QBs job to (1) recognize and decipher the play being signaled in; (2) call the play with the correct formation and snap count that takes into consideration any motion required; (3) read the defense, assess the situation (down-distance and formation) and audible to a new play if need be. Golson needs to demonstrate he can do all of these better, but most importantly he needs to master 1 and 2 before 3 becomes important, or even necessary. Without mastering 1 and 2, Kelly is never going to give him the keys to the car...and Golson knows it.

    Bingo!

    My guess is that Golson, and many like him, was so gifted and superior in high school, that he could literally tell his receivers to "go long" or just improvise, and he would get the ball to him. Now, I know it wasn't actually like that, but just as the speed of the game changes dramatically from high school to college, so do the complexities. I'm also guessing that Golson needs some intensive, boot camp basic training. In the best of all worlds, he should be apprenticing with an experienced 4th or 5th year quarterback, so that he wouldn't have to go through "on-the-job-training." Unfortunately, that's not the situation he, nor Notre Dame, is in.

    signature image

    I may not be pretty, but I'm fast..... POTW 1/31/11 - 2/6/11

    HamOnWry22

  • Risksorter said...

    Ham:

    I agree that Hendrix and Golson still not being able to run the offense in what appears to be basic improvisational ways remains a mystery. And Hendrix is a pre-med student and Golson, a musician. Maybe one only has intelligence and the other, good left brain/right brain coordination. Whatever, in each case, the lack is, it was obvious.

    From my own college football experience, the only time I ever saw this kind of failing was when a guy's head was not in the game. I hope that's not the issue.

    But, here's the rub. If this is not corrected before Dublin, Rees could be the starter. If Kelly has a guy who can do 85% of it well, he's unlikely, in my view, to go with a guy who can do about half of it spectacularly, but who is a total liability with the other 50%.

    I'm not making a prediction because there's no way I could justify one, but I'm beginning to sense a potential scenario where Kelly goes with Rees until he can't. In other words, why jeopardize the Navy and Purdue games, both of which, with Rees under center, are eminently winnable, but which, with either Golson or Hendrix at the helm, could become a lot more competitive.

    And if ND is able to cruise, Kelly can then bring in Golson and/or Hendrix for game experience and/or mop up. After that, it's one game at a time. Rees played well against UM and MSU last year, so, assuming he were to play well in the two opening games, on what basis would Kelly then replace him? Only if he blew up in either of those games or in any of the next ones.

    In other words, I can see what Rees was saying in the interview. Since there's been no sea-change in the play of the other two, he sees it as still his position to lose. It's a valid argument.

    Frankly, I was disappointed in Hendrix's play on Saturday. It didn't look like he'd made any kind of a quantum leap. And, while Golson looked better and more adept, this business of not knowing the play was, to me, pretty astonishing. Guys who don't know the play or who can't line up the team don't belong on the field.

    Again, I'm not saying categorically that it will happen, but I can conceive pretty clearly under what cirucumstances how and why Kelly might go with Rees. It's not, as we all know, that Rees is so good, but that the other two still haven't put it together. And if not by now, then when?

    Risk, that was absolutely on the money, from start to finish. Yes, if Golson or Hendrix don't pick up more, or show more, as the case may be, Rees will start, and I think precisely for the reasons you lay out. However, I hold out some hope that Golson will play "catch up ball" with the learning portion of the offense over the summer and in the practice preceding the season opener. Maybe still not enough to take that first snap, but ready enough to come in that game, and not have us worry that he will be able to hold on to his first snap.

    signature image

    I may not be pretty, but I'm fast..... POTW 1/31/11 - 2/6/11

    HamOnWry22

  • Risksorter,

    I think you hit it spot on and articulated it in simple language.

    Since about the last week of spring, I've been of the opinion that either Rees or Hendrix will get the start against Navy for the very reasons you stated. I believe the MIchigan State (Sept. 15) and Michigan (Sept. 22) games will be the tipping point for several reasons — not the least of them being that Sept. 29 is ND's lone bye week.

    From those MSU and UM contests, Kelly and Co. will be able to ascertain the direction the season is heading and proceed accordingly at quarterback.

    Lou Somogyi ●

  • Solution: Run the ball more, throw the ball less .I am serious, but it will not happen. It is logical though. Woods made some cuts Sat. that we absolutely beautiful. Especially the ones that he bounced outhside and down the sideline when the middle was clogged. He looks like he is primed to be a special back. Also, I was very impressed with our offensive lines ability to get off the ball and maintain contact with the defenders.

    Let's face it, an offense that has a QB in the shot gun depends upon the QB more than a team like MSU that runs first and allows the QB to throw a lot of play action passes. If it was up to me, and we had three QB's that very possibly may not be ready next fall, I would tweak the offense and get the QB's under center more and play action pass more. I would still keep mixing in spread formations though. However, this is not Kelly's style and so BK is the captain of this cruise and we are just along for the ride. Of course, if BK is running an offense that does not play to the strength of the players that he has at QB, and the players aren't able to run the offense effectively, ( Tommy, not a spread qb, Hendricks, not executing it consistantly, and Golson, not ready to lead), then it is up to BK to make it work or face the consequences.

    irishm

  • irishm said...

    Solution: Run the ball more, throw the ball less .I am serious, but it will not happen. It is logical though. Woods made some cuts Sat. that we absolutely beautiful. Especially the ones that he bounced outhside and down the sideline when the middle was clogged. He looks like he is primed to be a special back. Also, I was very impressed with our offensive lines ability to get off the ball and maintain contact with the defenders.

    Let's face it, an offense that has a QB in the shot gun depends upon the QB more than a team like MSU that runs first and allows the QB to throw a lot of play action passes. If it was up to me, and we had three QB's that very possibly may not be ready next fall, I would tweak the offense and get the QB's under center more and play action pass more. I would still keep mixing in spread formations though. However, this is not Kelly's style and so BK is the captain of this cruise and we are just along for the ride. Of course, if BK is running an offense that does not play to the strength of the players that he has at QB, and the players aren't able to run the offense effectively, ( Tommy, not a spread qb, Hendricks, not executing it consistantly, and Golson, not ready to lead), then it is up to BK to make it work or face the consequences.

    I think we will run the ball significantly more this year than last year. Three super backs and an offensive line that may be the best we have had in ten years i think our running game will be brutal for other teams to deal with. That in hindsight will help our passing game progress.

    dansch20

  • We expect that all NDs QBs are going to have that confidence playing that position - good to see but shouldn't be a surprise. With all due respect to TR what EG has TR doesn't have and WHAT TR has(at this moment) EG will learn AND have. EG gives an added offensive dimension that TR doesn't possess and I'm not trying to beat up on TR. A QB that CAN run poses a threat - TR limits ND's offensive possibilities. GO IRISH!!

    irish13

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    garyfh

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    BORGHI

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