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Mike Mayock

  • Mike believes ND is a year ahead of schedule. What does that say for the next few years? Anybody want to take a gander at the 2013 starting lineup?

  • As far as the schedule goes....
    --- reasonably difficult again with MSU, UM, OK, USC, and Stanford as our last game (potentially critical), but not overwhelmingly difficult....
    --- we could easily go 8-4, and then again run the table...we had 4 games this year that could have ended up as losses without much difficulty.

    As to the starting lineup, I realize this comment isn't popular, but I don't think Golsen is a given as starter....
    --- Kiel is simply too good to sit...I just don't see it unless BK goes with his Tommy Rees mentality, Probably will, but it doesn't mean Kiel shouldn't start.
    --- Put another way, Golsen really has to improve to keep is starter role unless Kiel's talent is a total myth (very doubtful).

    Beyond that...If Wood opts out early he is even dumber than Clausen, so I expect him back to go with Atkinson and my fav McDaniel (too bad he isn't bigger)...
    --- Carlisle is basically way too brittle, might play....we aren't loaded here unless Wood snaps out of his funk and Atkinson holds on to the ball.
    Tight ends are set with the return of Welch and Koyack, but both really need to improve on their blocking, especially Koyack who was a huge disappointment this year; couldn't block anyone.
    Tackles will remain as is...I don't see Martin opting out early; he simply isn't good enough to go in the 1st three rounds.
    Guards will return Watt, and possibly Martin the Younger will go to Golic's slot....
    --- but I expect Stanley to go to right tackle and Lombard to go to right guard (hard to believe Stanley will sit for either Martin or Lombard)
    Center is wide open without any incumbent in site IMO...so if someone really wants to see the field, it is a golden opportunity...we need 2 guys going head to head for this slot.

    Wide Receiver is basically a black hole as far as a true, deep, go to type of guy...nothing even remotely special...Someone will play, but I don't see anyone lighting a fire.
    --- Slots are somewhat set with Jones, but beyond that someone has to step up...no one was able to get into the rotation in a serious way who is coming back.

    Basically, I expect a similar non-productive offense against the better teams...similar to this year with a slight down side....(losing Eiffert and Riddick);;;
    --- with "red zone" TD scoring against these better teams remaining a problem that had dogged Kelly during his tenure at ND.


  • Yes, let's go back to the Ron Powlus, Jimmy Clausen, Tommy Rees-style quarterback. That was so successful in comparison to the Tony Rice, Kevin McDougal, Everett Golson approach.

  • Clausen was a great collegiate QB Pat...
    --- let's get real....his stats were incredible...come on give him some credit instead of dumping on him.
    --- by the way, you left out Quinn from this group.

    JC's problem was he had absolutely no defense...it was terrible....
    --- or has my memory gone bad suddenly?

    Powlus is a legitimate question mark...
    --- but Rees is a function of Weis's decision not to recruit a QB in 2009 (assuming he and Clausen would return)...and Crist's injurires.

    Rice and McDougal both played for very good offensive teams....
    --- which if my memory hasn't left me suddenly were far more dominant than this year's offense.

    This year's defense is covering up a lot of offense inefficiency...just like they did in Rees's first year at the end of the season when they bailed him out.

    As far as position competition goes, I think it is a very good thing. I don't see it as a negative as some do.

  • what round did rice and mcdougal get drafted?

  • Don't ask...it isn't polite...Pat would object...and besides, you are asking a rhetorical question and you probably know the answer...as in NO....
    --- besides someone can be a great collegiate QB without ever making it to the NFL

  • No, he wasn't great. He wasn't an All-American and didn't win any of the season-ending quarterback awards that many of our other guys down through the years have won. He had a losing record as a quarterback at Notre Dame despite being surrounded by a cast of 4- and 5-star players. He may have been the only multi-year starter at Notre Dame to have a losing record. ND lost its last 4 games under Clausen. Admittedly the defense was never great, but many of those losses were due in no small part to Clausen's inability to make key plays at critical moments. Can you imagine him scrambling for the tying 2-point conversion the way Golson did against Pitt?

    I don't understand the enthusiasm for Kiel, since we've seen very little of him. He was a top-rated quarterback in high school, but so were Paulus, Clausen, and Crist. From watching his high school highlight videos he looks solid, but not great, compared with Golson, whose high school videos were really amazing and who was threw the 5th most TD passes in high school history. Kiel's team lost his last game in high school 62-7, so clearly he's not some irresistible force. We saw him in the Blue-Gold game last spring, where he appeared to have a strong arm but was pretty inaccurate and lacked the mobility our offense depended on this year. If he develops into a strong backup, that's great, but I want the guy who led the Irish this year at the helm next year, with the year of experience under his belt. But you're entitled to a different opinion.

    This post was edited by patH72 16 months ago

  • Golson will be the QB next year, to think otherwise is ridiculous. Kiel is way overhyped in my opinion. I have seen him play twice in person in high school. He is a good solid QB. He is nothing special and was way overrated coming out of high school as the #1 QB in America.

  • I believe you are underestimating Kiel, but each of us sees talent in a different way...apparently you are in the very tiny minority on Kiel, but welcome to your perspective.
    --- besides, I really don't think the Spring Game is any indication of ability....I can explain "why", but I have done it so often to posters like you I have grown tired of doing so.

    As to #1 QBs out of high school, like Sanchez and Barkley of USC, Clausen and Kiel of ND...they are #1 for a reason...and they play in the NFL....(or will in Kiel's case)....
    --- but some highly rated QBs like Crist of ND and Corp of USC fail, so I am not saying it can't happen.

    Sure, guys like Kaepernick out of Nevada (49ers and Nevada, who we creamed big time) was never highly rated out of HS, so anything can happen in the maturation process.

    As far as style of QB play, I find it very difficult to criticize either Clausen or Quinn, (Powlus was a whole other issue) who were basically Pro style QBs.

    Clausen was blamed for almost everything during the Weis era...
    --- but the numbers JC put up in 2008 and 2009 will prove very difficult to match....6700 yards, 63 TDs, 18 INTs...are you kidding me? Unreal.

    Quinn, another QB with the style you and Pat don't like (Quinn only ran 1 time that I remember), also threw for almost 4,000 yards in 2005 on 32TDs with 7 INTs.
    --- pretty amazing any way you look at it.

    As for Kiel losing in a high school game...
    --- I saw Braxton Miller of OSU fame play Glenville of Cleveland several years ago now...he threw I believe 4-5 INTs in that game, and was a horror show...
    --- he ain't so bad is he?

    As for Golsen versus Kiel next year, if anything, it is going to push Golsen to do far better than he has done this year...
    --- at the worst, we will have a new QB competition to babble about next spring like we did this year....just don't count Kiel out unless Kelly does his Rees imitation.

  • Surrounded by a cast of 4 and 5 star players......?
    --- do you actually believe this recruiting drivel?

    Why don't you list all these numerous star ND players who ever made it into the NFL on defense in the Clausen era...or on the offensive line....
    --- we had no defense to bail Clausen out like Golsen has been bailed out....and the offensive line sucked.

    This difference in terms of "team" between 2008 and 2009 and this year's team is so gigantic it is ridiculous to even discuss it.

  • where did the offense rank in nd history in clausens last year? i think 2nd all time!

  • Not underestimating him. Why do you think he will beat out Golson next year? Why would bk bench eg after an undefeated season and seeing how he has improved over the year. EG is gonna be awesome next year and he will get better every year. I doubt kiel will play until his senior season other than mop up duty for the next three years.

  • I believe that Kiel will not finish his college football career at ND. I agree with knight that there is no reason, after this year improvement, that Golson will not be the starter next year.
    I don't think that Kiel will wait around for Golson to graduate or except mop up duty for the next three years. There is always the possibility of injuries which could change everything. Good position to be in for the next few years.